Thursday, December 5, 2013

Jameis Winston Rape Case: What happened that night? What does it mean when the Attorney's Office does NOT take a case? Why would a victim be warned she will be Raked Over the Coals?

A new documentary, The Hunting Ground, is exploring the issue of rape on college campuses.
The woman whose accusations against Jameis Winston were met with anger and bullying speaks out in this movie, released next week.

The Effects of Acquaintance Rape on a typical person HERE
Not Believing Crime Victims HERE
and HERE
We must start open examination of the way the legal system
deals with this crime..
Look at the actual police reports in the Ben Roethlisberger case

The Jameis Winston Rape case began in December a year ago when a woman, a student at the Tallahassee university, reported she had been sexually assaulted.

 (She did not know who or where.) A month later she ID'd Winston.
The woman's family has said a detective warned her attorney that Tallahassee is a "big football town" and her life could be miserable if she pursued the case. 
Tallahassee Police Department Interim Chief Tom Coe told reporters this week that the accuser "broke off contact" with them in February and didn't want to go forward with the case.

The story became public when some media outlets put in public records requests for the alleged victim's complaint. Tallahassee police have released a heavily redacted incident report documenting a sexual assault allegation in early December 2012.
The family of the woman has blasted the police investigation.

According to ESPN,  (see article below) there will be no charges filed against Football player Jameis Winston.
 The attorney's office stated that "We have a duty as prosecutors to determine if each case has a reasonable likelihood of conviction," Meggs said. "After reviewing the facts in this case, we do not feel that we can reach those burdens."

This standard is true for all cases. Even when many people connected to a case think someone is guilty (like certain murders connected with organized crime for example), if the state does not feel they can make the case and have a pretty good shot at conviction, they do not take the case forward. Many times police and attorneys feel sure the crime was committed by the accused. But being overworked, overbooked and needing to focus on winnable cases, they decline to take the case.
THE ONLY THING not taking a case means for sure generally, is that there is not overwhelming evidence.

remember: Rape cases rarely have overwhelming evidence, particularly when acquaintances are involved. This is because the evidence of the crime is so similar to behavior that is not a crime-- the only difference is "consent"
(Even "stranger" rape cases are defended by stating that the victim was nice to the accused.)

After the State Attorney Willie Meggs made the statement above, the lawyer for the accused immediately tries to fool people by suggesting that since they could not go forward with charges, his client has been found innocent. The wording is pure lawyerese. see snip below

Video here:

If we assume that no one knows if a rape occurred in this case or not, except the two parties involved, this development does not help us in knowing. The reason: many rapes are not prosecuted.

Please consider this scenario: 
A woman has a couple drinks at a party. She chats with a guy, and he tries to kiss her while they are on the dance floor. She declines, and says she is not interested. They continue drinking and moving about the party. She either drinks too much (or is drugged, which state attorney's offices say is quite common now days) and feels sick, goes to a quiet room to lie down. She wakes up with the guy's penis inside her, he ejaculates as she tries to move away, and he leaves.

Where is the evidence of rape?

Please tell me, WHERE is the evidence of rape?

Most typically: The evidence will be her word. That's all she will have.
Here is one account of the night of the event:

The woman who claims she was raped by Florida State QB Jameis Winston says they were boozing at a local bar before the incident ... and she had 5 or 6 shots, this according to police documents.

According to a search warrant affidavit, the woman told cops she "began to feel the effects of the drinks" and was then whisked to a nearby apartment, where she was raped.

According to the affidavit, “[the accuser] then remembers entering an apartment on the ground floor.  She remembers the male taking off her clothes then engaging in penile/vaginal sex with her as she told him to stop and tried to fight him off.”

Cops said in the affidavit ... at some point during the incident, another black male with dreadlocks came into the room and told the man to stop ... at which point he took the accuser into a nearby bathroom where he "completed the act."

Cops say the woman contacted police within an hour of the alleged rape -- but claim the accuser was so drunk at the time, she was "unable to tell a detective where the incident occurred."

She had only "hazy recollections of details after that," the cops said.

It wasn't until roughly 5 weeks after the incident that the woman first identified Winston as her attacker.

Read more:

The statement released to the Times by Patricia Carroll, the unnamed alleged victim's family attorney, accuses the Tallahassee Police Department of failure to fully follow up on the initial rape complaint; prematurely and unilaterally alerting Winston's attorney and Florida State campus police to the situation; and painting a foreboding picture of the potential fallout from accusing a Seminoles football player of sexual assault.
"We requested assistance from an attorney friend to interact with law enforcement on the victim's behalf," the statement said. "When the attorney contacted Detective [Scott] Angulo immediately after Winston was identified, Detective Angulo told the attorney that Tallahassee was a big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable."  article


Meggs and his office had been investigating the case for the past three weeks, and they interviewed the accuser about two weeks ago. Last month, reported that DNA found in the woman's underwear matched Winston's. His attorney, Tim Jansen of Tallahassee, said Winston had consensual sex with the woman. But the woman's attorney, Patricia Carroll of Tampa, Fla., said Winston raped her 19-year-old client, who withdrew from classes after the allegations resurfaced in media reports last month.
"We have a duty as prosecutors to determine if each case has a reasonable likelihood of conviction," Meggs said. "After reviewing the facts in this case, we do not feel that we can reach those burdens."
While the case could be reopened if new evidence is found, Meggs indicated that he "had no earthly idea what that would be."
Carroll released a statement shortly after Meggs spoke.
"The victim and her family appreciate the state attorney's efforts in attempting to conduct a proper investigation after an inordinate delay by the Tallahassee Police Department," the statement said. "The victim in this case had the courage to immediately report her rape to the police and she relied upon them to seek justice. The victim has grave concerns that her experience, as it unfolded in the public eye and through social media, will discourage other victims of rape from coming forward and reporting."
After hearing Meggs' decision, Jansen said of his client: "He's absolutely innocent, and I'm glad and pleased that Willie did a full investigation and found the same thing we did. There's no evidence. He could not go forward with any charges."


  1. Everyone: I have posted this in two parts. PLEASE read all two parts before making a judgement...

    You wrote:"Cops say the woman contacted police within an hour of the alleged rape -- but claim the accuser was so drunk at the time, she was "unable to tell a detective where the incident occurred."

    On Page 19 of the case report: (can be found@

    PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL CONDITION OF VICTIM: The victim had no obvious signs of external injury. She was slightly upset but was able to clearly communicate. As the investigation continued several bruises began to appear on the victim"

    On Page 20 from same report:

    "OFFICER OBSERVATIONS: Upon my arrival I noted that the victim was slightly upset and was not able to fully recall the incident. She was very cooperative during the investigation. Forensics responded to TMH and took photos of the victim"

    From the TPD Dectective:
    "initially made contact with in the emergency room. She appeared to be very tired, but lucid (not

    intoxicated). We spoke briefly"

    Does not sound like somebody would could not be coherent enough in order to recount events? Further more her BAC was.048 which was taken 2 hours after the alleged act. Her claims that she blacked out before and during the event in the bedroom, would require a BAC MUCH higher then what she COULD of had at the time before and after the incident, also no evidence of date rape drugs were found during any Lab results...

    Part One of Two.

    "EVIDENCE RECOVERED: I collected the victims outer clothes from her dorm room, She was unable to recall where her underpants were. The SANE nurse Walker responded to TMH and collected the SA kit"

    Unable to recall where her underpants were....Problem with the evidence right there, how do you know if the underpants were the same ones she wore at the time of the incident...

  2. Part Two of Two

    The woman who claims she was raped by Florida State QB Jameis Winston says they were boozing at a local bar before the incident ... and she had 5 or 6 shots, this according to police documents."

    She later changed her story, saying that she was sharing those drinks with another friend at the bar. IE drinking out of the same cup, However, she did state that she did take another drink from somebody else unknown:

    "that while walking through the bar a male (unknown to her) handed her a shot. After she consumed the shot she stated she couldn't remember what happen next".

    Could be possible the drink could of been laced with something that would cause a blackout condition..but wouldn't it showed up in lab tests?

    Also comes into question is the text/sms activities of the alleged victim during the time period of the alleged incident (it is included in the report that I have linked above) I would ask that you read it for yourself. Also included are witness statements of who was present in the apartment. All support Jamis account of events...There is very little (if anything) that supports the accusers version of events,in a legal sense..She also described her attacker as being 5'9 to 5'11. Jamis Winston is listed at 6'4. That is HUGE difference that what was described....

    With all of this: DA Megs did not have enough evidence to arrest, let alone charge Winston...

    And this:

    "Detective Angulo told the attorney that Tallahassee was a big football town and the victim needs to think long and hard before proceeding against him because she will be raked over the coals and her life will be made miserable."

    This statement was not there to discourage the victim from pursuing charges, but to tell her what she could be facing..the Police Department did NOT to tell the VICTIM this, they told this to the attorney representing the victim. The Police Department in my view, had an obligation to inform her (through her attorney mind you) what she could be facing, in order to prepare her for this..And the attorney is twisting this around in order to get public sympathy, and making the TPD and Jamis Winston look bad, by trying to allud to a cover up..Nothing more than just a cheap, dirty P.R, tactic.

    Your scenario that you posted on your blog, is indeed very shocking and sad...I don't know if there is any evidence of rape given in your hypothetical scenario, but what I am going to say next may surprise you:

    It's very sad and unfortunate that many people are put into that situation, especially when you consider that there is NO amount of risk mangament can totally prevent the use of date rape drugs..We cannot expect people (especially women in the like scenario that you have written) to have such a hyper and overextended use of risk mangament in everything they do..I mean do they expect people to test there Soda for date rape drugs when they are at Buffalo wild wings? To do so would just lead to paranoid thinking and make our society more like Goerge Orwell's 1984. And then you get laws that would be similiar to what is described in that book.

    I think it is like the discussion we had about how American (and indeed western) Society has lowered it's Morale standards and ethical thinking..That I think is creating a Culture of Violence and Disrespect that results in situations like the Jamis Winston case....Morality and Ethics...

    I wonder what could be a solution, to all this? Maybe what You have been saying all along in your blog....respect one another...I just wish it could be that easy.

    Thoughts anyone?

    1. I think you made a good point. If the victim cannot have the consistency with her testimony, it is really hard to convince anyone if you tell different story every time. That's why we don't know if it is consensual sex, because the victim's words, which seems like to be the only evidence in this case, is not reliable.

  3. I would like to emphasize on the issue at bay and that is this: Was sex consensual yes or no? Did Jamis ask the victim whether or not she wanted to have sex? Or did he ASSUME she wanted to and engage in sex regardless. In Jamis's statement he admits that he had sex with her but that he believed it to be consensual. In the victim's case she states that it was not consensual and that she told him "No" and tried to push him off. No means No. Rape is not Consensual. Therefore, if both parties did not agree to engage in sex, then it is Rape. I agree with you on your comment that respecting one another is a preventable solution, and and I would like to add how vitally important it is to ask and not assume. Communication and respect are key. "Assume Nothing."

    1. But the can she prove her version of events? All the witness statements that were in the apartment support Mr Winston's version of events , she couldn't even accurately describe him or even identify him until 5 weeks after reporting the crime. If you were a DA would go forward with this to arrest and than to trail? Just on her word, when the information clearly debunks her account of events?

      I do agree with you about consent, it may sound easy but it may not always be as much. I have given this link to the author of this blog, and I would ask you to read it, and consider: is this what the world should come to, were we cannot trust one another and just do things to just cover ourselves? Have turned this environment into something so hostile?

      Is this what sons should be told to do in order to protect themselves from a false allegation?

      Also, if you read the paragraph at the end of the article, and ask yourself: Is this what people are going not to do when another human being clearly needs help for fear of a false accusation?

      I understand your sentiment about consent, but what I am saying is that it is not all black and white... As you allude it to be...

  4. one quick comment, although i want to make a longer response later, is that we need to mark the difference between
    legal issues and
    the truth.
    On this blog we are often talking about the truth of things, not whether a legal burden of proof can be made.
    I know personally people who have been raped (men, women, and children) who are unable to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Most times, people in this situation do not "bother" reporting to the police. In fact, after being close to certain rape cases that went to court, and seeing what the jury actually got to see versus what happened, and the piles of evidence and context that were never admitted--i have very little fatih in the prosecution of rape.
    The legal system does not ask accused to PROVE they had consent. Accusers must Prove rape. that is an extremely difficult thing to do.

    1. That is just it, isn't it? In this specific case nobody knows what the truth is. We only make the assumption based on what we think and what we want to believe is the truth.
      Now we have to remember katytold line of work, gives her this opinion, given the very nature of this line work and what she has experienced will color her perceptions and will have preconceived notions of all of this. It goes with the territory so to speak. This is not mean' t as a dig or an insult.

      I personally know of 6 people who have been falsely accused of rape, and there lives have been ruined. I also know of 2 women who have been raped also...But I also recognize that what I perceive to be the truth, Is colored by this also

      The point is we have to be careful of how we apply our notions when considering something in this case, especially when considering guilt or innocence or what the truth is.

      As far as the legal system goes? I would still rather have innocent until proven guilty, then to have it the other way around...because if it was the other way around we would have essentially witch trails, or mob justice and I shudder to think what our society would be if we have that.

  5. What is sad is that because the victim can't come up with enough proof she can't get justice. Also, it doesn't come down to is what she is saying what happened true or not, but how many people say the same thing. Meaning, that because others who were in the apartment had said the same thing as the accused, his story is the one that gets picked to be "truth". So the only way the victim could have been telling the truth is if she too had a friend with her in the apartment who would possibly speak on her behalf. I understand that our legal system works on evidence, but what is hard is when situations like these come up and it seems there is no way to get justice. The victim will be looked at as a liar, problem starter, bitch, and so on, while the accused may be looked at as the victim that overcame this issue, when in reality NO ONE KNOWS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. This is what is sad. He may have raped her. She could have not once said it was okay for him to have sex with her. But again, the situation is hard to prove, and all that anyone will go off of is the lack of evidence, and what most people say is what actually happened.
    I also do agree that respect is how to prevent this. I feel it is weak when a man tries to sleep with a woman while she is intoxicated. If he really likes her he should wait until she is sober, in the right mind, and then ask. That way instead of trying to remember was I raped? Or who raped me? She'll try to remember that nice guy who took care of her. If this concept were to be followed more often, then there would be a lot less "unclear" cases like these.

  6. I find it absolutely sickening that this woman (and many other survivors of rape) are almost encouraged by the police to drop the case, especially since this town was a "football town". Does being on the football team give you the freedom to do whatever you want? Does being a part of a popular sport make you exempt from laws? A person who was robbed would not be "raked over the coals". When will we stop calling women liars and sluts and take the crime of rape seriously?