If it were Justin beiber instead of miley cyrus naked on that
wrecking ball…
If it was Justin Beiber with his dirty old pair of tighty
whities pulled up into his butt crack and his legs spread open so one could
tell if he had one ball or two—
If it was Justin “singing” about being wrecked like an abuse
victim while posing in every sexually available pose the cameraman asked for—
The conversation would be different. We haven’t quite
accepted the sexual abuse of our little boys as openly as we accept it of our
girls.
Justin Beiber naked: same response from the talking heads??This is the destruction of our kids. Welcome to the demon party.
Correct me if i have this wrong-- but, you think i am being divisive for the post, and you think i meant you worked in holly wood, and said, said
I will ansewer your question if you ansewer mine. But I
think in case, specifically involving Miley Cyrus, I think what needs to be
taken into context is that Miley is coming off of a very controversly
performance at the MTV music awards, and to add to the fact that Miley Cyrus was
also the star and the focus of Hanna Montana, and her recent proformances in a
far departure from her earlier work. Hence why you have the "talking
heads" reacting the way they are...Remember this is the entertainment
industry, doing stunts like this, gets publicy and therefor drives sales.
Mondonna did it, Britney Spears did it, Elton John did it, Van Halen did it
ect..ect...So I really don't know if Justin Timberlake or Justin Bieber would
get the same reaction from the "talking heads", Not that I'm totally
sure that the general public would really care what the talking heads would
say. I assume that you think that I work in the entertainment industry, I
don't. Never have.(Nice Ad-hom attack by the way) But what if I did? Does it
make my opinion less valid in your view? (remember YOU asked for what people
think) How do you that Miley Cyrus has "handlers" Forcing her to do
this? Do you personally know how much creative control that she has? Do you? Or
you just make assumptions? Your right I do not know you, but from what I have
read in this blog ..., and
judging by some of the statements that you have made, PUBLICLY in the past..
and your own statement of how society clearly sexualizes girl more than boys..I
think it is safe to say that you follow the feminist ideological worldview. By
the way if society sexually objectivfies women/girls then it also at the same
time men/boys are success objects. Now that I have ansewered your question
please have the decency to ansewer mine: Why are you being so divisive about
this..IE (Boys vs Girls)?
And I am glad to hear a response that begins to address my post.
here is a sentence from the post that you may be referring to:
We haven’t quite accepted the sexual abuse of our little boys as openly as we accept it of our girls.
I will briefly point out that your statement
" I assume that you think that I work in the entertainment industry, I don't. Never have.(Nice Ad-hom attack by the way) But what if I did? Does it make my opinion less valid in your view? (remember YOU asked for what people think)"
Presupposes an anger that is not here. i have no beef with working in any industry (except a couple i suppose_-, i myself would live to work in media,
as i pointed out below i assumed your worked in the child abuse care field and meant it as a compliment, and that that was part of why you made the comment.
((So i think this is a great example of how people misinterpret things and the forums can get full of folks making digs or ready for insults.))
so- back shortly.
OK -- here are some thoughts.
Along with every other Disney and other child stars, there are handlers.
and there are plenty of tell -all books from those in the business that testify to the fact that everything is handled. This child was groomed as a "model" for kids to learn from. From day one there were scripts that made her a teacher and model to other kids. Her early show was a totally relatable script for those watching about how to live life. Little life lessons about friendship and values in hanna montana. This fame is not built cheaply or lightly. It is not given away. A model is very important.
Getting everyone to watch the spectacle of mtv awards is why the talking heads waxed riotous--
moral and cultural insanity!
getting everyone to watch it
even to condemn it
is the point.
There are plenty of youtube and other video compilations about the music/entertainment industry and its specific "treatment" of youth.
I won't belabor that point more than that.
My point is that we have grown accepting in our culture
we see the sexualization of our girls and it is taken for granted now.
http://marysbeagooddogblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/french-lingerie-for-tots-is-four-years.html
http://marysbeagooddogblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/condoms-for-children-philidelphia.html
http://marysbeagooddogblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/little-girls-are-sexualized-new.html
My point was that we would react to a fresh young boy model writhing about in a far different manner.
I'm sure it is coming.
The same in microcosm are genitalia. The female genitalia are allowed, it is there and in your face. Still working up to the males'.
I have a few more comments in a minute-- about
e.g., child molestation and the wrecking balls who wreck their families by reporting and the damaged goods syndrome.
but i would like to say my worldview
is not as you characterize, anonymous.\back later.
While I do not agree with the video in any way, shape, or form, I do not think this song is about abuse at all.
ReplyDelete"I came in like a wrecking ball
I never hit so hard in love
All I wanted was to break your walls
All you ever did was wreck me
Yeah you, you wreck me"
It sounds like to me that she fell really hard for someone. And he had his "walls" up. She fell for him much harder than he did for her. She tried to "break" his walls. Maybe it worked a little bit but in the end he could not or would not fall for her back. Therefore, you "wreak me". He broke her heart.
many children who are abused, and there are millions--feel like they wrecked their families.
ReplyDeleteThey want the affection they deserve, "break down the walls" but are only valued for the molestation. they end up wrecked.
I really don't think anybody accepts sexual abuse of anybody, boy or girl, So my question is: Why are you being so divisive about this..IE (Boys vs Girls)? or is that how all of you feminist see the world?
ReplyDeleteSo you work in the field in this issue I take it? Let me ask you this -would your response to the video be the same if it was a male doing the things that Miley Cyrus did? If eg beiber of Timberlake did those things - if the Handlers and producers made them do those things--the media response would be different. This blog post is asking--
ReplyDeleteHow? Why? In what way?
that's the question I'm asking the public at large not necessarily those who work in the field.
Please don't label me. Since you don't know me and have clearly not followed this blog. The abuse or maltreatment of all is my focus. I callem as I see them. Our society clearly sexualized little girls more than boys.
@katytold: I will ansewer your question if you ansewer mine. But I think in case, specifically involving Miley Cyrus, I think what needs to be taken into context is that Miley is coming off of a very controversly performance at the MTV music awards, and to add to the fact that Miley Cyrus was also the star and the focus of Hanna Montana, and her recent proformances in a far departure from her earlier work. Hence why you have the "talking heads" reacting the way they are...Remember this is the entertainment industry, doing stunts like this, gets publicy and therefor drives sales. Mondonna did it, Britney Spears did it, Elton John did it, Van Halen did it ect..ect...So I really don't know if Justin Timberlake or Justin Bieber would get the same reaction from the "talking heads", Not that I'm totally sure that the general public would really care what the talking heads would say. I assume that you think that I work in the entertainment industry, I don't. Never have.(Nice Ad-hom attack by the way) But what if I did? Does it make my opinion less valid in your view? (remember YOU asked for what people think) How do you that Miley Cyrus has "handlers" Forcing her to do this? Do you personally know how much creative control that she has? Do you? Or you just make assumptions? Your right I do not know you, but from what I have read in this blog and you are employed at KSU Women Center/Studies group, and judging by some of the statements that you have made, PUBLICLY in the past.. and your own statement of how society clearly sexualizes girl more than boys..I think it is safe to say that you follow the feminist ideological worldview. By the way if society sexually objectivfies women/girls then it also at the same time men/boys are success objects. Now that I have ansewered your question please have the decency to ansewer mine: Why are you being so divisive about this..IE (Boys vs Girls)?
ReplyDeleteThank you for your thoughtful response.
DeleteI will post this response and your original response up there in the post itself so as to be able to better answer, and to address a great example of misunderstandings that occur in forumland/internet converstions, and to distinguish among all the anonymouses.
I would like to immediately point out that when i said "work in this field" i meant the "working with child abuse" area, not hollywood...
I interpret this song as being that she was in a toxic relationship in which she lost herself and gave everything to another person who in turn left her without a care and "wrecked" her soul, her image of herself. Clearly she feels exposed and destroyed, and judging by her sexually suggestive behavior in this video, may even still want him or desire him. As sad as the message is behind this song, she has lost respect for herself. In turn her fans are losing respect for her, as a result of the way she is now portraying herself, which is as a sexual thing or object. It is very possible that she has been a victim of sexual assault in her early life, and the way that she has grown up has damaged her. And it is also possible that she trusted someone she was in a relationship with so completely, that she put her full reliance on him. So when he left her it completely shattered her. I interpret this song/video as a cry for help.
ReplyDeleteI don't work in the Child Abuse Field either for the record. I don't think posting on the internet is a conversation, I prefer the real thing (conversations that are face to face) to be honest. On the internet you have to be completely clear about what your meanings are, or misunderstandings happen. As and aside, I also think it has degraded social skills in the western world, but that would be a different disscussion for a different time.
ReplyDeleteDear Blog Lady: I just happened on this today, and the 'person' debating You (i 1st assumed to be a man but not sure now) certainly has only 2 things they seem to be saying At You. Clearly they are wanting to label you as a FEMINIST (which is a negative connotation in many social circles - unfortunately) and 2 He/She THINKS or See you as 'Divisive' just by asking/Posing: a very relevant social question - I don't read your original post as Either! Great question really Justin B go around fighting and makin fool of self to get in news Timberlake ripped off a 'velcro tit cover' of Janet Jackson to get Superbowl coverage.. the WOMAN is always assumed to be the one who is responsible/ this person debating you could not even GET IT that You asked if they were in the field of social services. heck - even i read it as that! and i am not invested in in this like you and others. aw forget it..
ReplyDelete5th_of November_Remember: So you have a problem with somebody asking a question? And yes I think it is divisive to frame this (Or anything else for that matter) Men(Boys) vs Women(Girls)and apply it with broad brush stroke. It was a question and one I would like answered, I'm intersted in what she has to say.
ReplyDelete"So you work in the field in this issue I take it?"
That statement is unclear, and subject to interpertation in context of the post or the subject matter. But it is not the point is it? What does it matter what "field" I work in? Or what Gender I am? Why would that validate or invalidate my opinion on the matte?,If a reasonable human being was to read my post they would understand that. So I am trying to figure out the point of your post. Please explain..
@KatyTold: Ok I have read your response, don't you think you are being a little bit selective in all this? In other words only concentrating on Women and Girls? What I mean is that Men and Boys also get demonized in the entertainment industry, and I think it is the way that society views men. For example many scenes in TV and movies depict violence against men and sometimes boys and it is considered comedy. Like I have stated earlier it is the way the Society views men or how Feminism ignores mens problems: For a good example of this: Look up on YOUTUBE Two Old ABC Shows "What would You do" One is how people react to a Man physically abusing a woman in a public park and the other of A woman physically abusing the man in a public part. The diffences in the reactions of people in the two different situations is just shocking.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying how little girls being expoited by the Entertaiment industry is right, it is not. But what is really the cause? I don't think it is any one thing. I think it is a number of different things. Another example you could use is that shameful show called "Toddlers and Tiara's" I think this supports your position that you have. But I would like to point out is that the Mothers push these little girls to do this stuff, I Severe Child Abuse if you ask me, and NOT fit to be mothers, despite all the claims of how it is "building a little girls self-esteem". But my point is if you didn't have woman pushing their little girls to do this stuff...well...
Miley Cyrus is 20 years old. An Adult. And your resources from YOUTUBE and "Tell-All" books about handlers does not prove that you personally know if Miley is being forced to do this, or how much creative control she has. This is simply brushing the situation over with a broad stroke.
As far as worldview goes, are you saying that you are not a feminist?
I guess feminists will what they want too see, in order to fit there narrative, I mean they see everything in these terms. They create this hy this hyper-awareness of things, for example, the newsweek cover, it is a woman eating asparagus, that is what a normal person would see, but a femininst see's it as sexist, turning into something that it is not.
ReplyDeleteFirst please read my additional comments in the original post.
ReplyDeleteIn discussing the effects or characteristics of a thing one can look at all the factors which explain some of the variety in outcome or manifestation.
Looking at gender or age or hormone levels or culture is interesting for many reasons. For example, the symptoms and the treatment of depression can be very different for males and females, partly due to the way testosterone and estrogen affect behavior. The idea that you think looking at these factors is divisive speaks more about you than my question raised in the Original Post.
I have never valued one gender over another. That makes no sense to me.
Those who have read this blog over the years know that I value and stand for certain principles, not an agenda or a worldview you seem to be fixated on. I have frequently lamented and drawn attention to media mistreatment and lessening of men. BTW I do not teach in an Academic Women’s Studies department. I work with all students who have been victims of violent crimes. Those of you looking for a fight will have to go elsewhere.
Things are what they are. Boys are exploited, girls are exploited. Men are stereotyped, so are women. How they are lessened changes in cultures, eras, and techniques. I discuss the ones I am personally interested in at the moment.
Your first comment-“ I really don't think anybody accepts sexual abuse of anybody, boy or girl, So my question is: Why are you being so divisive about this..IE (Boys vs Girls)? or is that how all of you feminist see the world?” - - Misses my point. We have come to shake off, dismiss, accept, or enjoy the degradation of girls in our culture. Girls and young women are routinely brutalized, sexualized, and trivialized in media. If I was a man saying these things you might think I was merely stating the obvious. Since I am a woman you seem to be jumping to a silly conclusion.
Young men and boys also have crosses to bear and I have spoken of them. I was never accused of being divisive when I bring up issues like this; rather if there is an interest folks are free to discuss.
You said in regards to my saying, "So you work in the field in this issue I take it?”—‘ That statement is unclear, and subject to interpertation in context of the post or the subject matter. But it is not the point is it? What does it matter what "field" I work in? Or what Gender I am? Why would that validate or invalidate my opinion on the matte?,If a reasonable human being was to read my post they would understand that. So I am trying to figure out the point of your post. Please explain..’
Since you brought up the abuse issue in your first comment I wondered if that was the approach/field you came from. Why in the world do you think your opinion would be worth less depending on your field or gender? That doesn’t make any sense to me.
In addition to the points I made in the OP, I will say that my question, “how would people react if a male such as Justin beiber produced the same video as ms. Cyrus” was meant to actually have one ponder that. Just PONDER that and then we can see if there is a difference. Here in real life, individuals admitted that their response as they pondered it was different. My statement,
--We haven’t quite accepted the sexual abuse of our little boys as openly as we accept it of our girls—was meant to illustrate the difference in general that was expressed to me. The statement is a sad one and points toward the silence and fear pervading the issue. The abuse of little boys is kept quieter and is less media-accepted.
Through the media, we have been conditioned to accept certain behaviors from girls that we have not been conditioned to accept from boys.
The almost laissez faire attitude toward sexualized little girls has not (yet) been applied to boys.
Why you want to fight about his or see division rather than seeing the whole—the sorrowful and deliberate hurting of the youth—is unclear to me.
Just because the talking heads want to spin or characterize something is not indicative of how our society accepts or rejects a certain issue. The media sensationalized these type of stories for ratings nothing more, nothing less. It does not mean that we have to shake off,dismiss,or enjoy the degradation of women in our culture.
DeleteEspecially how how men and boys are viewed in our culture. Why would I think that my opinion would viewed as less valuable?well,in the way that you wrote your post, that was unclear about what your intent in regards to field. Now the gender part? That in response to another post, not by you.
You claim that have never favored one gender over another. I have respectfully disagree, I have looked over your blog and it can be summed up as women are the eternal victims and men are perpetrators and yes the attention that is given to men is cursory at best. One of your posts stated how men are the onesneed to be responsible for stopping rape and it seems to elude to the fact of the same old "All men are potential rapists" that men somehow have something wrong with them just because they are men. Why can't men just be accepted as men? Maybe what I am trying to say is when are we as a society going to stop with this whole men vs women thing? That is what I mean by being decisive, that it is not seeing the whole picture. By asking the question that you asked makes the issue divisive as it only focuses on the women's side of things,and lessens the boys side. This narrative in society needs to stop, if we are to move forward towards equality. True equality. Let's bring sanity back to the disscussion.You work at a women's center. Think about that for a moment. Why is there not a mens center?
In closing: It makes NO difference if you were a man or a women when you make those statements, or how I would respond to them. I think that statement betrays what YOU really think. You have not even addressed anything in my other post. I'm interested in your thoughts on it. I believe that discourse is the way to knowledge and understanding.
The entire globe and through history--
DeleteWomen and children are victimized.
Don't take it personally.
It is just the facts. Could just as easily be the reverse. Things are what they are. I don't blame a gender.
I do not blame a gender.
This is a battle between good and evil.
That is my worldview.
Ironically I have to go answer an emergency call.
By the way why don't you tell me
Please give me your answer--
Why aren't there men's centers???
Men have been victimized also...tell me when in history have women been conscripted to go to war and face the real possibity of dying in those wars? When have women ever have to toil in the fields,factories, in mines, and risk work related death? And then return home and share the fruits of his labor with his family as required by law? Before suffrage?
DeleteWhy no men's centers, the government will not fund them, and it would be regarded as being politically incorrect and may even be subject to lawsuits..then again we have women only gyms....does not seem to be a problem there. Wonder why that is? What is your answer, I did after all pose that question to you.
KatyTold/Blog Lady:
ReplyDeleteI thought about something and came back 2nite. What if it was Justin B shakin his penis all out at us and we just loved that hard stick; - we want IT piercing us; Shocking us; making US want that thing..
sort of a backward doppelganger of the MC dance she did with skin suit (simulated anal sex) etc.
would we as a society accept this 'sexualness' like we do of girls and women?
i say No in general (because i used to have cable TV and they only show butts of men)I have wondered about that; but realized... MEN by percentage run and control media, both management and Money.
But as i read a few things written above your reply and then: 'Mr Anon' Telling You ""HOW INTERESTED HE IS IN ""YOUR" THOUGHTS....and reciting a pointless circular argument that clearly to me: (a non professional, Not in the field) he has no genuine point of arrival nor a a drop of truth in his request for YOUR THOUGHTS or to truly answer his vague, faux Ouroboros type of pontification toward you exposing an obvious discord with the fact YOU work at a Center that has word "Women's" at title; yet does your office not have a multipurpose role on that campus? far more than just hand holding WOMEN Rape Victims (note> Sarcasm:intended)... toward your guest troll=(Mr Craptastic) intended -
sorry! I feel a bit terse by his false bravado of Male dominance and superiority toward you)
--- that aside:
My take on your BASIC Question Posed for US to reflect (which I see as Just That a Theory Posed for reflection and self reflection - not bait for internet PsyOp freaks... but having been to KSU for Masters work - and encountered the fact THAT: there is No Need for a MENS CENTER! its a BOYS CLUB in first place and only a Male gender would argue with you for such, as they lack the insight to see their own 'Male Privilege' in said institutions and real Life! FVCK That! I say to Mr Craptastic above!
The World IS MENS CENTER they or 'some' like Sir Craptastic.. fail to remember they have had the power and glory - and still do.
Nothing YOU or certainly Me(I) say can fix that poor man's insecurity and need to defile logic and ratiocination - via discourse on the web..
GAwd! I forgot what i came here to say about my revelation Miley and her lady GAGA imitation..
i barely care what these show biz types do, when no talent types shock us and take in the Ad dollars for media. so I've come way farther into the cave than i wanted to.. By and large a lack of talent means more outrageous stunts and what concerns me on a social science level; since I do factor these things into my "Field" of work... is: What influence do these role models <(HAHAHAHA joke) have on real kids. I see clothing at Target now that does make me ask is 4 years old - old enough to 'sexualize' ? - apparently so - but not in the boys clothing section! - It is militarized: (TAP OUT- ARMY - Gang etc) not "OOOH Baby wanta' hook up?"
This sexualization i have seen has led to a generation of Entitled man/boys in colleges and elsewhere that can not respect a drunk college girl as if she was a tube of Pringles... not sure what that means, but it has to do with 'Multigrain Pringles seeming to be a Paradox' - but hey that's just me..
But Hey; i need to reduce airspeed to 220knots and have traffic at my 3 o'clock 2 miles out, and a 737heavy with wake turbulence ahead of me.
Thanks for your time.
Oh PS when people throw the label/word FEMINIST out at us, they have no clue why they do it, it's becuz Rush Limballz told them its a bad word and you can demean someone just by invoking it!
Oh the whole privilege agreement, huh, nothing more then just a politically correct method to be a bigot, people throw that around when you cannot come up with a coherent point, well done. So women can have a center because you believe that the whole world is a boys club? Is that all you got? So I guess you feel that men in our society have no problems or too insignificant for anybody too care or address. You just justified everything that I have stated in my posts. Congratulations.
Deletehey i did NOT mean anything BAD about Your center; Nor rape victims (men or women) that use your center!
ReplyDeletei was attempting to be sarcastic about your responder above who surely believes everything he has been told to say..
Look, I have not been told to say or believe anything, If our have a problem with dialogue, fine, but please stop with the personal attacks, just because somebody expresses an opinion that conflicts with your own. Maybe think about it for a second, you might learn something.
DeleteFuCryin Out Loud.
ReplyDeleteMy point in case anyone is missing it
Is that we are ruining our youth.
The Dancing on the head of a pin difference between how open our society is with destroying its females versus destroying its males
Is a writer's device to say the whole thing stinks to high heaven.
That's not just a phrase. It is sending stench up to Heaven.
Yes, I believe you are correct in the assesment that media and the entertaiment industry is ruining our youth, and I believe it destroys girls as much as it destroys boys,abeit in different ways. I believe it has been going on for the last couple of decades, and it is been really increased in the advent of the Internet and Social Media. It has taken that destruction into overdrive. It must make parenting and teaching into a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this discourse, you have DEFINITELY given me some food for thought, and I think I have learned alot, I feel that discourse like this is SORELY needed in our society. There are some more things that I would like to discuss with you that I really do not want made public on the internet,and I really do not want to clog up your blog.Would it ok if I email you? Despite what other people think, I'm not some PYSOP internet troll freak. Once again Thank You.
My email is on my profile...
ReplyDelete